Round Table Meetings with Stakeholders

Participants

In February and March 2011, CIC met with a broad range of stakeholders on the proposed changes to the FSW selection grid. Meetings were held in the following locations:

• February 17: Atlantic Region teleconference
• February 18: Toronto, Ontario
• February 23: Vancouver, British Columbia
• February 24: Calgary, Alberta
• March 1: Ottawa, Ontario

The meetings were attended by approximately one hundred representatives from various sectors, including employers, unions, educational institutions, professional and business organizations, regulatory bodies, municipalities, immigrant services organizations, sector councils and ethnocultural organizations.

Participants were provided with background material that outlined the details of the proposed changes, as well as a report on the evaluation of the program to help inform discussions.

What We Heard

Following are the key highlights of the discussions from the round table meetings.

Language

Stakeholders were broadly supportive of minimum language thresholds by occupational classification and increased weighting for language. They largely supported the directional changes to language requirements and were in general agreement that strong language skills promote good labour market attachment and integration into Canadian society.

Minimum language requirements depending on occupation

Although it was generally agreed that the proposed thresholds were suitable minimums for immigration purposes, a few stakeholders felt that they were too high. Others felt that Canadian Language Benchmark (CLB) 8 (fluent intermediate), proposed for professionals, managers and technicians, was below full labour market readiness as the proposed CLB threshold might be lower than the threshold required to undertake a certification process, if required for licensing, or to be effective at their job. Others pointed out that there is a vast difference between workplace language proficiency and that required for integration, so it could still be difficult for immigrants to integrate even if they have the required CLB levels for their occupation.

There was general support for the language benchmark thresholds for skilled trades at CLB 6 (developing intermediate). Stakeholders agreed that once in Canada, skilled tradespeople are required to have sufficient language proficiency for integration purposes to meet the minimum safety requirements of the job site. However, for that same reason, and because of the need to read technical manuals, it was suggested by some that the linguistic threshold should be set at CLB 7 (adequate intermediate) at the very least.  Conversely, a limited number of stakeholders felt that the threshold proposed may be too high for applicants in the skilled trades.

Some stakeholders called for a wider framing of the lower thresholds for their respective sectors, namely for chefs and cooks and agricultural workers. A few felt that some workers in these categories would have difficulty attaining even the lower language threshold and therefore, the program would be excluding certain occupations. However, it was noted that tradespeople, including cooks, chefs and agricultural workers, need good language skills for integration purposes, to withstand economic downturns and to make progress in their occupation.

Second official language

Concerns were expressed by many participants regarding the points allotted for an applicant’s second official language proficiency, noting the lack of evidence pointing to this factor’s relevance in leading to positive economic outcomes. CIC officials explained that respecting the bilingual character of Canada is one of the objectives of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act and for that reason, there is no proposal to remove the points allotted for proficiency in the second official language.

Following this clarification, one stakeholder proposed awarding higher points, perhaps even maximum points, for applicants who achieve their thresholds, and offering a bonus option of either points for second official language or a bonus for higher proficiency in the first official language. This suggestion was widely supported by other stakeholders.

Age

Although stakeholders supported the general direction toward rewarding younger applicants, the choice of 35 as the peak age to earn age points gave rise to extensive discussion regarding the distribution of points and the appropriate age cutoff.

When asked why 35 had been chosen, CIC responded that although international research indicated that 30 is the optimal age for immigration, Canada wished to remain competitive with other immigrant-receiving countries and was cognizant of the reportedly higher retention of people with families.

Most stakeholders considered that awarding maximum points only until 35 years of age was too low. Some argued for maximum points until 40 years and also pressed strongly for a more graduated decline than the proposed steep drop-off after 40.

It was suggested that CIC might want to encourage the migration of permanent residents in their forties, and their young dependants, given the significant outcomes and positive integration patterns of the dependants of immigrants in Canada. It was also suggested that, although younger immigrants contribute to the country longer and provide a net economic benefit, older specialists, whose valued experience is associated with age, should be given extra experience points to compensate.

Several other stakeholders also linked the drop in points after 40 years of age to the approaching management succession issue where middle and senior managers are more likely to come from the 45–65 age range than from the under-35 range. Some argued that the program should not eliminate points after 50 for senior-level managers and professionals such as doctors and university professors.

Education

Stakeholders were generally supportive of the proposed changes to the allocation of points for non-university credentials, with some concerns being raised on how the changes would affect the trades.

Some stakeholders felt that correcting the educational credential assessment and years of education requirement would help to facilitate the immigration of applicants in the skilled trades and lessen the impact on this group caused by changes to the work experience factor. Others, however, expressed reservations about lifting the years of education requirement for certain occupations.

Two stakeholders gave specific support to this measure, citing experience with cases where trade applicants had been disadvantaged by the years of education requirement.

Credential assessment

Participants noted the importance of ensuring the quality of foreign non-university post-secondary diplomas  by better framing the definition of these credentials, and encouraged the government to consider a competency-based or skills-based assessment in the future. CIC officials acknowledged that awarding Canadian equivalency to an overseas educational credential, taken at face value, is misleading to applicants as it does not take into account the value  granted to these credentials by the Canadian labour market. Some stakeholders advocated strongly that Canada should not be treating all educational credentials at face value, and called for points to be awarded for the relative value of overseas educational credentials in Canada.

A couple of delegates advocated the piloting of competencies-testing tools rather than credential/qualification requirements as a better way to measure economic success indicators and links to employers’ requirements.

Specialized grid/Accommodation for trades

One trades representative made the point that the work experience and arranged employment (AE) factors should be the most heavily weighted factors to encourage skilled tradespeople. This was echoed by another member of the trades sector who advocated for removing education points and weighting trade licences as similar to to university degrees. A third group asked if education could be directly linked to the specific occupation and its educational requirements, as set out in the National Occupational Classification (NOC) guide for each occupation. Pre-arrival assessment of qualifications and provisional permanent residence were raised as possible solutions to the difficulty in assessing overseas education and training.

CIC acknowledged that it was possible that a “one size fits all” approach to the selection of skilled workers would not benefit the skilled trades and that additional measures could be proposed in the future. These would encourage and facilitate the immigration of skilled tradespeople whose skills are increasingly in demand internationally. Stakeholders appeared to agree with this assessment and suggested further supportive measures for the trades, such as a dual pass mark—i.e., a lower pass mark for the trades—and a higher pass mark for other skilled workers; a specialized grid for the skilled trades, with less emphasis on the credential and more on work experience; and pre-arrival trade credential assessment by third-party specialists.

Work Experience

Points distribution

There was general acknowledgment that foreign work experience is often discounted by Canadian employers and agreement with the proposal to reduce the value of work experience in order to shift more weight to the language and age factors.

One sector representative expressed concern that reducing work experience points, combined with proposed minimum language thresholds, would affect their sector’s ability to recruit skilled talent in the skilled trades occupational group.

Some felt that a move away from the points system to a more competency-based system might be required while others made the point that employers are best able to assess work experience, indicating that the Temporary Foreign Worker and AE options are key to meeting labour market needs.

Transferability of foreign work experience

Several stakeholders pointed out that there were varying degrees of transferability of foreign work experience, depending on the occupation and, in some sectors, foreign work experience is very highly valued. For example, cooks with specialty skills may benefit from having overseas experience.

Crediting Canadian work experience

Several stakeholders suggested that more credit be given for Canadian work experience in a split system similar to that of other countries such as New Zealand. One representative pointed to the value of rewarding Canadian work experience, either as it currently stands under adaptability or by incorporating a bonus for Canadian experience in the work experience factor.

Other points raised

Stakeholders generally acknowledged the importance of bridge-to-work programs to help overcome the discounting of foreign work experience and to assist newcomers in gaining Canadian work experience. Others had more pragmatic concerns, such as how best to differentiate between Canadian and foreign work experience.

Arranged Employment (AE)

Importance of the Arranged Employment factor

There was broad discussion on the weight to be given to AE. Some stakeholders advocated for the elimination of points for AE, indicating that there is a high incidence of fraud in this area of the program; others believed the points to be insufficient. One stakeholder noted that, without the 15 points available for AE, it is a challenge for non-native English- or French-speaking tradespeople to meet the FSW pass mark.

Priority processing

There was general support for priority processing of applications supported by arranged employment. Stakeholders indicated that research, including the FSW evaluation, demonstrates that FSW applicants with AE have significantly better economic outcomes. Stakeholders welcomed the proposed direction to improve the integrity and genuineness provisions, with some reservations as to whether this would impose burdensome requirements on genuine employers and increase processing times.

Processing times

Significant concern was expressed about the processing times for applications supported by AE, based on Human Resources and Skills Development Canada (HRSDC) Arranged Employment Opinions (AEO) and HRSDC AEO-exempt offers of employment. Many asked whether processing times would increase or decrease under the proposals, noting that long processing times could affect the viability of AE for employers recruiting applicants overseas.

Several stakeholders suggested that employers be allowed to mine the FSWP backlog, which could reduce fraud by removing third-party agents from some AE involvement. Those selected would have their applications given priority processing.

According to some stakeholders, CIC and HRSDC requirements for employers are viewed as burdensome, and the duplication of efforts can create costs to business by placing roadblocks to overseas recruitment.

Genuineness and compliance provisions

Most stakeholders felt that the guiding principle of AE is to ensure that applicants fill a genuine need in Canada and come to a legitimate job. There was some support for the compliance provisions as outlined. In one view, a firm, genuine job offer is better than a job offer that is fraudulent, and strengthening compliance is a positive initiative that strengthens the integrity of the legitimate offer.

Some stakeholders asked CIC to consider provisional permanent resident status for AE applicants as a way of limiting the scope of the fraud.

Adaptability

While CIC had not put forward proposed changes related to the adaptability selection factor, stakeholders presented improvements that could be made to this element of the selection system. They suggested the possible awarding of points for the following factors that would lead to successful adaptation and labour market entry:

• Canadian work experience;
• recognition of foreign credentials;
• the spouse’s proficiency in an official language; and
• pre-arrival transitional counselling.

Spousal language proficiency

In discussions on the importance of considering the attributes of principal applicants’ spouses the question of rewarding the spouse’s official language proficiency was raised. There was general support for this under the adaptability factor, and it was felt that it should not be a mandatory requirement. Stakeholders recommended rewarding the official language abilities of the spouse, particularly as it would assist with the integration of the family into Canadian society.

Pre-arrival assessment of educational credentials and preparatory courses
There was strong support for giving adaptability points for the pre-arrival assessment of educational credentials and stakeholders agreed that more information and support in finding employment are required both before arrival and upon arrival, rather than reliance on family. It was suggested that extra points be granted for participation in pre-arrival counseling sessions such as the Canadian Immigrant Integration Program (CIIP) and the existing health professional transitioning counseling.

Some stakeholders also recommended that adaptability points be allocated to individuals who partake in bridging programs funded by the Foreign Credentials Referral Office.

Points for skilled trades

Other suggestions included giving adaptability points for certain NOC codes in the skilled trades. Having a separate grid for skilled trades is also worthy of consideration as is awarding additional adaptability points for experience in the skilled trades occupations—if CIC is seeking to attract a certain type of work experience, it should award adaptability points for that particular work experience.

Relatives/Community in Canada

One of the most controversial issues was the FSWP evaluation finding that having relatives in Canada had a negative impact on successful outcomes.

In response, one stakeholder lauded the importance of having a well-developed support network to provide good advice to new permanent residents and offered the possibility that community networks could be a detriment in that they could provide bad advice to skilled workers. It was recommended that more analysis of this evaluation finding be undertaken.

Stakeholders agreed that the proposed changes to adaptability points were generally positive, and recognized that the presence of family can have a negative effect on successful labour market entry, for various reasons. One stakeholder pointed out that business or professional connections were possibly far more valuable than family in the context of economic immigration.

It was also proposed that CIC award adaptability points, or consider requests for substituted evaluation, when cultural groups and communities are willing to assist in the provision of basic settlement services for new arrivals.

Other Comments

Stakeholders at most sessions indicated the importance of providing newcomers with information about the factors leading to success in Canada. There was support for pre-arrival training for FSWs as well as support to prepare skilled workers for living and working in Canada, which would include information related to Canada’s workplace culture. It was also agreed that prospective immigrants need to be prepared in advance through outreach efforts.

Some stakeholders commented that the program should account for “soft skills” and non-measurable qualities such as motivation to change and adaptability, noting that these are important factors in ensuring positive outcomes.